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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s Wrong with the Church&#8211;from materialism to martyrs</title>
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	<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/</link>
	<description>meditations from a postmodern, incarnational, missional church planter</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 07:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-519</guid>
		<description>What I feel is wrong with the Church today is that Christians do not really know their Bibles but follow every weird or distorted doctrine they hear repeated, regardless as to if it lines up with the Word of God or not. 

As a major example, the majority of Christians pass down the Malachi chapter 3 Scriptures on keeping the tithe command although that was only valid to Jews under the Old Covenant. After Jesus went to the Cross there is no command to keep any Mosaic law for right standing and favor with God. Our favor comes from the completed work of Christ on the Cross.  Common sense should tell them if Sabbath keeping, circumcision of new born males on their eight day and the Levitical system of animal sacrifices have all been put away (along with the other hundreds of Old Covenant laws) then why hold onto just one ordinance?  . What do they think Jesus meant on the Cross when he said, It is finished same as Paid in Full.  Did he half pay then we pay the balance?
New Testament instruction is to give as one decides without pressure and cheerfully 2nd Corinthian 9:7  .

Colossians 2:14 &quot;Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross&quot;.

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: &quot;Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.&quot;

Galatians 3:13
&quot;Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree&quot;

Hebrew8:7
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Romans 8:32
&quot;He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?&quot;

Hebrews 7: 28
Moses&#039; Teachings designated mortals as chief priests even though they had weaknesses. But God&#039;s promise, which came after Moses&#039; Teachings, designated the Son who forever accomplished everything that God required.
Unless you are totally programmed by the tithe propaganda you will understand the above Scriptures do not support keeping the Law for believers under the Dispensation of Grace. Free Favor to ask in Jesus name for your needs
without  monetary payment or your self-efforts.   

I heard one Pastor tell the lie that God wants you super rich (with money) and whipped his Church into a frenzy chanting &quot;My money is coming.&quot; No emphasis on repentance and right living only money and materialism. Just as Jesus took cords and made a whip to chase the Merchants out of his Fathers house that should have been a house of prayer (but Jesus said they made it a den of thieves), I strongly suspect Jesus will chase the modern thieves out soon enough. God help them to repent now before that happens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I feel is wrong with the Church today is that Christians do not really know their Bibles but follow every weird or distorted doctrine they hear repeated, regardless as to if it lines up with the Word of God or not. </p>
<p>As a major example, the majority of Christians pass down the Malachi chapter 3 Scriptures on keeping the tithe command although that was only valid to Jews under the Old Covenant. After Jesus went to the Cross there is no command to keep any Mosaic law for right standing and favor with God. Our favor comes from the completed work of Christ on the Cross.  Common sense should tell them if Sabbath keeping, circumcision of new born males on their eight day and the Levitical system of animal sacrifices have all been put away (along with the other hundreds of Old Covenant laws) then why hold onto just one ordinance?  . What do they think Jesus meant on the Cross when he said, It is finished same as Paid in Full.  Did he half pay then we pay the balance?<br />
New Testament instruction is to give as one decides without pressure and cheerfully 2nd Corinthian 9:7  .</p>
<p>Colossians 2:14 &#8220;Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross&#8221;.</p>
<p>Galatians 3:10<br />
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: &#8220;Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.&#8221;</p>
<p>Galatians 3:13<br />
&#8220;Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree&#8221;</p>
<p>Hebrew8:7<br />
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.</p>
<p>Romans 8:32<br />
&#8220;He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?&#8221;</p>
<p>Hebrews 7: 28<br />
Moses&#8217; Teachings designated mortals as chief priests even though they had weaknesses. But God&#8217;s promise, which came after Moses&#8217; Teachings, designated the Son who forever accomplished everything that God required.<br />
Unless you are totally programmed by the tithe propaganda you will understand the above Scriptures do not support keeping the Law for believers under the Dispensation of Grace. Free Favor to ask in Jesus name for your needs<br />
without  monetary payment or your self-efforts.   </p>
<p>I heard one Pastor tell the lie that God wants you super rich (with money) and whipped his Church into a frenzy chanting &#8220;My money is coming.&#8221; No emphasis on repentance and right living only money and materialism. Just as Jesus took cords and made a whip to chase the Merchants out of his Fathers house that should have been a house of prayer (but Jesus said they made it a den of thieves), I strongly suspect Jesus will chase the modern thieves out soon enough. God help them to repent now before that happens!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 07:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-485</guid>
		<description>Wow! This is just what God has placed on my heart... that somewhere we (the church) have gotten off the path that leads us home! 

I am so excited to see how God is moving in all of us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! This is just what God has placed on my heart&#8230; that somewhere we (the church) have gotten off the path that leads us home! </p>
<p>I am so excited to see how God is moving in all of us!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Muggline</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Muggline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 12:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-338</guid>
		<description>Hey there, when are you going to publish your follow up to this article? I&#039;m keen to see what you have to say!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there, when are you going to publish your follow up to this article? I&#8217;m keen to see what you have to say!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: devin</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>devin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-289</guid>
		<description>who cares? church people are hypocrites who should be killed with a blunt knife</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>who cares? church people are hypocrites who should be killed with a blunt knife</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thinkingaboutitall</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>thinkingaboutitall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-79</guid>
		<description>Hi Troy,
I feel your pain.  I&#039;m excited about the questions you will be asking.  One thing that really gets to me is how the family of God gathering together has turned into a business transaction or ticketed event.  The event planners keep trying to attract customers.  The customers look for a really cool event.      

Jamie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Troy,<br />
I feel your pain.  I&#8217;m excited about the questions you will be asking.  One thing that really gets to me is how the family of God gathering together has turned into a business transaction or ticketed event.  The event planners keep trying to attract customers.  The customers look for a really cool event.      </p>
<p>Jamie</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-78</guid>
		<description>It sounds like you asked many of the same questions I asked.  I came to the same answers you did.  The bottom line is people aren&#039;t going to come streaming throught the doors of any church no matter how good the pastor, how great the programs, how awesome the music, or anything else.  Recent studies have shown that even growing churches aren&#039;t really pulling in the lost.  They are simply collecting people from churches that are dying.

If we as Christians want to &#039;reach the world&#039; for Jesus we are going to have to quit making a modern day idol of the institution and start taking the message outside the walls of our churches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like you asked many of the same questions I asked.  I came to the same answers you did.  The bottom line is people aren&#8217;t going to come streaming throught the doors of any church no matter how good the pastor, how great the programs, how awesome the music, or anything else.  Recent studies have shown that even growing churches aren&#8217;t really pulling in the lost.  They are simply collecting people from churches that are dying.</p>
<p>If we as Christians want to &#8216;reach the world&#8217; for Jesus we are going to have to quit making a modern day idol of the institution and start taking the message outside the walls of our churches.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: www.troyhamby.com</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>www.troyhamby.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Jason,
Thanks for the comment.  Despite the title, I definitely don&#039;t hate church but without a doubt, I think our focus needs to change.  And it sounds like yours definitely has (especially if you&#039;re as obsessed with this as you were with golf!!!:)  I think it&#039;s really, really great what you guys are doing over there at RCC and I look forward to hearing more from you guys.  Paige and I have been doing a lot of things behind the scenes in helping out in the community (homeless shelter/helping individuals/sponsoring orphans, etc) so it&#039;s great to see churches getting involved.  
Talk to you later
Troy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,<br />
Thanks for the comment.  Despite the title, I definitely don&#8217;t hate church but without a doubt, I think our focus needs to change.  And it sounds like yours definitely has (especially if you&#8217;re as obsessed with this as you were with golf!!!:)  I think it&#8217;s really, really great what you guys are doing over there at RCC and I look forward to hearing more from you guys.  Paige and I have been doing a lot of things behind the scenes in helping out in the community (homeless shelter/helping individuals/sponsoring orphans, etc) so it&#8217;s great to see churches getting involved.<br />
Talk to you later<br />
Troy</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Evans</title>
		<link>http://troyhamby.com/2009/01/24/why-i-hate-church-from-materialism-to-martyrs/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://troyhamby.com/?p=208#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Troy,

Well said!  This is one of those posts that I found to be positive and motivating.  (Other than perhaps the title).  I can’t stand reading posts that are extremely critical and negative toward the Body of Christ.  It’s easy for “bloggers” to sit back and become critical of what other pastors and churches are doing.  (I’m referring to another board that is frequented by other ministers).  

I can tell you that what you have written here has resonated with me.  Recently, the Lord has opened my eyes to some of the things that you are talking about.  Since the first Sunday in January, I’ve been preaching a message called “Be Like Jesus.”  It has consumed my everyday life.  You could say that I am obsessed with it, more than I was with golf…if you can believe that.  You and I have talked about how we are tired of the “consumer driven church” and then I heard a quote by John Maxwell that said, “if you don’t like what you are reaping…look at what you are sowing.”  It took a while for that to sink in, but finally I think I got it.  

You know me and you know that I don’t use these words loosely,  but the Lord spoke to me at the end of 2008 through a series of events.  (I’ll spare you the details for now).  The only way to describe what I feel is to say that something on the inside of me has been awakened.  I have spent over a month sitting down with different families in our church and sharing with them my “Be Like Jesus” vision.  Before Tina and I would leave their homes they were chomping at the bit to get to work on it. 

You talked about being a part of something that is  bigger than you,  we are starting to see this simple vision become a movement.  The more people we share “Be Like Jesus” with, the more it grows.  I have had no less than 15 volunteers a day show up at the church last week, during the day, just to do something to make the vision come to pass.  Recently, God has connected us to local government officials, business owners, well diggers in Kenya and Haiti and others I just can’t think of right now.  Right now we are getting ready to set up tents with heaters, cots and food for the homeless.  We are looking into leasing a store front building in a strip mall to put in a clothing and food pantry so that we can give to those who are less fortunate than us.  “Write the vision and make it plain so that he who reads it may run with it.”  We are off and running.  It’s all I can do to keep up with it.  

Many other things are in the works. I’ll be writing about everything that we are doing and seeing on our new church web-site that we are launching February 1st.  Also on February 1st, we will be launching an additional web-site for the “Be Like Jesus” movement so that other churches and community organizers can get involved. 

By the way, Carter looks adorable.  Talk to later bro.  AND HEY…CALL ME SOME TIME.!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troy,</p>
<p>Well said!  This is one of those posts that I found to be positive and motivating.  (Other than perhaps the title).  I can’t stand reading posts that are extremely critical and negative toward the Body of Christ.  It’s easy for “bloggers” to sit back and become critical of what other pastors and churches are doing.  (I’m referring to another board that is frequented by other ministers).  </p>
<p>I can tell you that what you have written here has resonated with me.  Recently, the Lord has opened my eyes to some of the things that you are talking about.  Since the first Sunday in January, I’ve been preaching a message called “Be Like Jesus.”  It has consumed my everyday life.  You could say that I am obsessed with it, more than I was with golf…if you can believe that.  You and I have talked about how we are tired of the “consumer driven church” and then I heard a quote by John Maxwell that said, “if you don’t like what you are reaping…look at what you are sowing.”  It took a while for that to sink in, but finally I think I got it.  </p>
<p>You know me and you know that I don’t use these words loosely,  but the Lord spoke to me at the end of 2008 through a series of events.  (I’ll spare you the details for now).  The only way to describe what I feel is to say that something on the inside of me has been awakened.  I have spent over a month sitting down with different families in our church and sharing with them my “Be Like Jesus” vision.  Before Tina and I would leave their homes they were chomping at the bit to get to work on it. </p>
<p>You talked about being a part of something that is  bigger than you,  we are starting to see this simple vision become a movement.  The more people we share “Be Like Jesus” with, the more it grows.  I have had no less than 15 volunteers a day show up at the church last week, during the day, just to do something to make the vision come to pass.  Recently, God has connected us to local government officials, business owners, well diggers in Kenya and Haiti and others I just can’t think of right now.  Right now we are getting ready to set up tents with heaters, cots and food for the homeless.  We are looking into leasing a store front building in a strip mall to put in a clothing and food pantry so that we can give to those who are less fortunate than us.  “Write the vision and make it plain so that he who reads it may run with it.”  We are off and running.  It’s all I can do to keep up with it.  </p>
<p>Many other things are in the works. I’ll be writing about everything that we are doing and seeing on our new church web-site that we are launching February 1st.  Also on February 1st, we will be launching an additional web-site for the “Be Like Jesus” movement so that other churches and community organizers can get involved. </p>
<p>By the way, Carter looks adorable.  Talk to later bro.  AND HEY…CALL ME SOME TIME.!!!!</p>
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